Mike Rodriguez stated that we were holding this item for a full commission to be here on this. We can fill in the blanks with to allow the Commissioner's recommended densities. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that Commissioner Jeff Loris was looking at some calculations. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that as he looked at some of our Townhomes projects. Kanta Village has 9.21 acres with tow-story townhomes that are close to 2200-2300 total sq ft per unit. He is just looking at the footprint space it takes up on the parcel though. That would be 73 units, 84,000 sq ft total. Divide that by the acreage, and we get about 400,000 sq ft of open land available and that development is using about 25% for buildings and left with 75% open space. It is almost 8.79 units per acre. Sage Villas has 4.8 acres, about half the size, and using more, 35% of their land for buildings which ends up being about 10.4 units per acre and is more dense than Kanta Village. Commissioner Doug Clifford arrived at 5:42 pm and stated that he has no conflicts. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that Movara are small two story casita units, that feel more single-family. They are 700 sq ft, 20 units on 1.59 acres, which ends up using about 14% of the space for buildings and calculates to 12.58 units per acre. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated those are nicer built smaller units with space in between them and that is more important than one big long unit in his opinion. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that he wanted to see what it was like in a Medium-Density residential such as Cliffrose. That is about 11.7 acres and 39 units, which is 3.35 units per acre. It is zoned RE-12.5 with a Subdivision Enhancement Overlay. Suncrest West is R-1-7.5 and medium density. It is tighter with 66 units on 17.5 acres with 3.35 units per acre. Encanto by Red Mountain Spa is single level Entrada-style housing to keep the lava open. 30 units on 10.8 acres 2.78 units per acre. Almost low density residential. We talked about changing units per acre from like 15 to 10. But they are 8, 9, 10 and 12 units per acre in these examples. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated we need another element and if they want higher density they get less, and with less density they get more. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated Red Mountain Vista Townhomes are 72 units on 7.95 acres. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he likes the percentage of footprint per acreage. It would keep that space to recreate and if we add a percentage, they can add amenities. If we control the percentage. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated if they are single-story who cares if they have more density. He would rather have low and wide structures than tall and skinny. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that was his point exactly. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired what is the overall objective? Chairman Bryan Pack stated that when Movara came in with their change application from a previously granted entitlement, and we were surprised that the amount was so high and higher than they were even asking for. We wanted to lessen that number and take that possibility off the table in the future. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated it was not just number of units, but also the quality of life in that subdivision. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that was Commissioner Lance Anderson's concern to be able to recreate in that subdivision. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that there are cluster homes in Salt Lake County and look like townhomes with just a small space between the two. We should avoid those. Overall it would be nice to match the openness and meld with the environment and not too tightly packed. Chairman Bryan Pack stated we have setbacks that define that. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that the average size house in Cliffrose is 3300 sq ft with garage and living, and that brings it to 25% of total land use. That is equivalent to Kanta, which is at 24%. Suncrest West used 28.46% of their land. Encanto is only using 19% of the land for buildings. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated he encourages single level. What percent would we allow and still have a functional community? Commissioner Jeff Loris stated he is thinking 30%. Chairman Bryan Pack stated but is there a tradeoff we could make to keep it one story and raise the percentage? Commissioner Bob Morris stated yes our hands were tied and there was no incentive. We want the quality of the whole subdivision to be better. Stay single story or give a park. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated right now there is no negotiation they can get 15 units per acre which is impractical. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated if you look at Cliffrose and what they can do they are 12.5 and medium-density, but if you go high packed medium-density residential they are to the limit of what they can build. If that envelope system was used in the Townhome application they could not exceed 30%. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that with townhomes they are sharing a wall, which allows them 10 ft that was between the buildings to be around the building, but building cost is smaller and they have joint community recreation that they can do. Encourage to have space around it and have recreation around it and have space to live. They could have amenities. If we said to have 35 ft houses, he would be more apt to say 26% to 28%. If you want to keep them single level, then let's grant them 38% to 42% range. Mike Rodriguez stated density allowance for Multi family zones, so twinhome and townhome zones. There has been considerable discussion making comparisons to single family development. Chairman Bryan Pack stated we all recognize that. We are just using them for comparison. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated the goal is to create space visually and interior spaces for people to do and live there. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that previous commissioners discussions had been buffers from one to another from residential to commercial but it would be nice if there was higher density in the middle with amenities and lower level homes on the outside. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated or if it is next to commercial. Chairman Jeff Loris stated that is why there is higher density around Ryders because it was next to commercial. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that he likes the percentage based. That is different than what we have up here. We need to change that. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that if you look at units per acre we could stay with them, using the percentage to figure it out. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he likes the percentage better. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated by using percentages it allows people to count the entire subdivision and use 35% and have open space which would drop it down to 25%. It doesn't necessarily limit them and it won't be cookie cutter. They would have some flexibility. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that this is multi-family. Chairman Bryan Pack stated but this concept could roll over to single family. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we do that already, but it is just so that the overall subdivision has the same density and they get credit for open space. Chairman Bryan Pack inquired do we attempt to craft what those percentages for twin home and townhome zoning districts and multi family zoning districts are? Can we do one set of percentages? If we say 25%-28%. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he likes 25% so they have give and take. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated he just wants the math to work. Chairman Bryan Pack stated by using the examples we see that clearly it can work, so we say 25% structural footprint of the residential building, excluding overhangs and eaves. Mike Rodriguez stated allowed densities are going to be based on percentage of size of buildable acreage comprised of buildings, housing dwellings with footprint of building, less overhangs and eaves. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated no we need to include porches and patios. Right now in our ordinance, if you build a house it can go in the 10 ft setback area and he does not like that at all. Mike Rodriguez stated that flat roof would give a larger footprint space than pitched roofs from above. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he does not think that patios and pergolas should be counted as roof space. People that live here want to maximize their indoor and outdoor space because that is the climate and why we are all here. He hates to see us limit peoples' ability to use their outdoor space. We should encourage it actually. Chairman Bryan Pack stated if it is covered and has a roof on it, it should be included in the calculation. That is the definition of a building. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that again, this is not single family residential we are discussing. The multi-family is not going to be building these huge pergolas or overhangs. Look at our examples. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that maybe we should think about this until next meeting. This is a significant change. Commissioner Doug Clifford asked if Commissioner Jeff Loris could write up his calculations for the group. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we don't want to mix twin-homes with multi-family with this concept. Mike Rodriguez stated that regardless for either, the height is at 25 ft. Make a comparison between a unit-based calculation and percentage based calculations and send it to the Planning Commission to compare. The current code shows 15 units per acres with a maximum density bonus up to 30. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated we need to think about that we don't need maximum density but what type of bonuses they get if they do what type of amenities. Mike Rodriguez stated you still want a maximum even if you go to different percentages for twin home and townhomes and multifamily. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that both Commissioner Jeff Loris and Commissioner Lance Anderson's expertise is needed here because you are the ones trying to apply these things. Mike Rodriguez stated the types of amenities are categorized ABCD and so you could look at those amenities and consider what percentage of bonus you want to give and categorize them and then give them higher bonuses for those you would prefer. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated it would be nice if it added up to 100%. Commissioner Bob Morris stated we need to see what the industry does with our percentages. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that he likes to avoid unintended consequences. We have never had this issue in the last four years. Look at Best's and Troy's. Let's check those percentages too. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so we will make a summary and also look at twinhomes and come back ready to put a percentage down and think this through.