Mike Rodriguez stated this had previously been discussed and the density calculations came from Commissioner Jeff Loris using both units per acre and a percentage method. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that at that last meeting they had decided they wanted to consider the percentage concept to potentially govern these densities. One concern he had is that you would not be able to define the percentage on a per subdivision basis because later-built homes would be subject to already established densities. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated this is for Multi-Family. It would be master planned before it was ever built. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that as long as the planning is done in the beginning, that would make sense. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that Suncrest and Cliffrose are on his list just as an example for consideration, but they are not Multi-Family. They are just to show what we currently have density wise in single family subdivisions. He looked at Sage Villas, Movara casitas, Kanta Village, and Encanto. The townhomes are the ones to really use as a model. Mike Rodriguez inquired if his calculations were just for building area? Commissioner Jeff Loris stated yes because the subject always comes up on the structures themselves and what we see, not what is below our feet. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that we have the ordinance that Dale Coulam has put together to fill in the blanks and then we have Commissioner Jeff Loris' percentage calculations. Do we have a proposal on what to do with this? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated last meeting we were just beginning discussing this. The idea is that percentage is better than units. 20% or 25% seemed pretty reasonable. It might be 18%, but he doesn't know that magic number. Mike Rodriguez inquired if they are looking at the projected roof area? Commissioner Jeff Loris stated no, this is based on foundation. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that in other communities they consider them patios if they cantilever, but if it has a column in it, it is a bearing foundation. They measure off of that. S&S Homes has used that formula for years. Mike Rodriguez stated as far as densities and coverages, it is typically roof area and how much it takes up on a site, be it single family home, or a commercial site. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that is the proper way to do it because in Multi-Family we are dealing with the massing of an area which is the roofline. Chairman Bryan Pack stated it sounds reasonable to him. Chairman Jeff Loris stated based on every architectural plan, structural plan, square footage is based on the exterior foundation of a building, whether it be patio or garage or living space. It is all based on the slab, what is on the slab and the pillars there, not on roof area. Mike Rodriguez stated that when we calculate building area for the sake of building permit fees, we look at the total enclosed area within the building wall envelope. However, if you look at coverage over a site you look at projected roof areas. Chairman Bryan Pack inquired if it is difficult to come up with roof calculations? Mike Rodriguez stated no we get it off the roof plan to see how much is projecting over the building. If you are calculating the usable area of the building itself you use exterior walls. Chairman Jeff Loris stated when a plan is reviewed, you take the time to calculate the square footage and the coverage? Mike Rodriguez stated depending on what calculation is being used for the different types of uses. Like covered patios for example to determine how much the valuation of construction will be. Commissioner Jeff Loris inquired when the architect says that a patio is 800 sq ft, you calculate the overhangs and give an express level of dimension there? Mike Rodriguez stated that generally just without the roof overhangs. We calculate roof overhangs if we are looking for separation for fire rated construction. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that you take the numbers that the architect gives you and two dimension the exterior slab. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated most of the plans he has are flat roofs so those are broken out on the plans as living space, garage space, patios and patio coverage. Coverage is more important than units. Because for example if we tell them 10 units per acre, they may build that many, but it doesn't say what size units they could have. As an example, he compared Movara to Kanta. Mike Rodriguez stated in the R-M zone for High Density Multi-Family, they can have an apartment building with units on each level for however tall those buildings get, so if you look at a per-unit basis, you could have multiple units stacked under that roof area. Apartment buildings are considered Multi-Family and you could have two or three times as many units there. Actor housing at Tuacahn has multiple units that you couldn't calculate coverage on a square footage basis. Commissioner Lance Anderson inquired on the height in the Multi-Family zone. Mike Rodriguez stated that they may want to have a separate calculation apply to apartments, where there are separate dwellings on separate floors. On a typical townhome development and twinhomes they are separated by lot line. Commissioner Bob Morris stated this got prompted because Kanta, which is at 21%, we felt had no amenities or place to recreate. We want to open up space for recreation and amenities. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated yes we are looking at the massing. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he was not happy with Kanta Village but they started out at 20%, so we need to start off at 14%. To raise the percentage, they need to introduce more amenities. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated our ordinance controls the height already. We are just talking about the density. Commissioner Bob Morris stated we would like to incorporate that ordinance list that offers those type of amenities. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated regarding the nature of what we are trying to do, should patios not be added into the square footage. Do we want to keep that as a bonus and an amenity to make those more enjoyable? Chairman Bryan Pack stated that the proposal we are wanting to consider now does not include patio cover in the calculation of the square footage. So foundation is the square footage calculation. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated whether the covered patio has a bearing column or not is irrelevant. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that Commissioner Bob Morris wants us to go lower than 20%. Let's use 14% of foundation without the covered patio and maximum is 20%. Mike Rodriguez stated that the Planning Commission is looking to base the densities on a percentage basis of the building area within the exterior walls of the building, including garage, and calculate those enclosed areas. We could make those calculations fairly simply. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired do we have or allow external storage space as part of the overall complex? Mike Rodriguez stated if we include those enclosed areas, they would be calculated. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that looking at Movara, they were 14% and enclosed under the entire envelope with half up and half downstairs. He just took the entire footprint of that. Half of the lower portion is an open patio. If we look at Sage Villas or Kanta, they don't have patios. they maximized the building and he doesn't see patios in Multi-Family. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that is the incentive. So we want to consider this proposal's pros and cons? We may need to think about this. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that Movara is isolated with its own amenities, and is not a good example of this system, but Sage Villas and Kanta are good examples with large acreages and have a lot of buildings with the Mixed Use densities that are there, and if you look at them you have 21% and 35%. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we should go over the list of amenities. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that the list was attached to the agenda and include full service clubhouse, swimming pool, tennis court, multi-use sports court, children play areas, basketball court, pavilion, gazebos, walking paths, security lighting, outdoor barbecue, picnic tables, sand box, volleyball court, horseshoe, or other amenities of a similar nature. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that talking here and then trying to apply it is hard sometimes. Mike Rodriguez stated that 15% on a one acre is 6534 ft of coverage. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that right off the bat if you have an acre you take off 20% for roads and utilities. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated he is thinking of an existing project he is working on with 1500 sq ft units plug garage is 2000 sq ft in each building. 4 twinhomes on that building is 16000 sq ft and divide is at 30% and 15% is not even feasible. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that if we start them at that percentage though then people will get amenities to reach up to the amount they want. It encourages them to work towards amenities. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that if we send this forward we need to come in with what a developer would come in with and propose with some hypothetical numbers. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated twinhomes and townhomes are really what we are looking at. Mike Rodriguez stated yes and in the RM zone, which is condos and apartments. They are generally 25 ft, although there are some allowances to go to 35 ft. Sage Villas was adjacent to commercial and so they were allowed longer and taller buildings on their site. Red Mountain Vistas is a good example of what coverage would be. There are not many amenities. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he would like us to put in what the most common amenities would be. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that we need to commit to remembering what we discussed here and look at this ordinance that has been our agenda. Look at the amenities and put that list together and rank things by importance, and figure out the density. Come to the next meeting prepared for those kinds of suggestions. Mike Rodriguez stated you would rather go with the percentage basis for density? Chairman Bryan Pack stated that is what we are considering at this point for these two zones. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he will take that list and play with those percentages. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that is what we all should do. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated pickleball, tennis, swim, gym, splash pad--what amenities would you want? Commissioner Jeff Loris stated increased open space. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated picnic areas, benches and trees.Mike Rodriguez stated we have some of those on the ordinance already as examples. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that the townhomes with the garages separated have an advantage in that they get more living space instead of incorporating them into the floor as far as height is considered.
Mike Rodriguez stated that we are introducing this item to the Commission. We completed the report to the State and there are three different strategies to consider in that report. Council Member Elliott has volunteered to draft an ordinance and we have not seen that yet, but we will be considering that. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we had one public hearing, but no one knew what the public hearing was for. He wants to hear what the public has to say before we even see an ordinance. There are so many mixed feelings out there. Some are bothered that we would allow two residential people to live in a single family residential area. Some say it is a great way to allow people that are older to have a little casita and rent it out. Chairman Bryan Pack inquired that if you think an ordinance is premature, how can we ensure people attend? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that last time they did not understand what the public hearing was for. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that maybe rather than another public hearing, we could have an open house. They can mingle and talk about ideas. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated if we draft something and put it out there, we won't know if people think it is good or bad and in what ways. Chairman Bryan Pack we don't get much useful information in those limited meetings by asking to see if they like or don't like the concept. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that maybe the Mayor can put something in the newsletter to start the conversation. Mike Rodriguez stated that in the Mayor's newsletter it stated that neighborhood meetings are January 28, 29 and 30 and that may be a good opportunity to let the public have that discussion about how accessory dwelling units are allowed and being proposed for use in the future. Commissioner Lance Anderson wondered if we could do a little survey at those neighborhood meetings. Chairman Bryan Pack stated yes and get meaningful feedback rather than just for or against. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that it could make the difference for some young couple's ability to rent out that casita on a monthly basis and being able to afford living in Ivins. That is affordable housing and what we are striving for. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that it would be better for some of the bigger lots in the old township to put an accessory dwelling on some of those large lots behind homes. They used to be farms and now they have filled with junk. Those are prime candidates. Mike Rodriguez stated our casitas are limited in size and they cannot be rented, they are restricted to friends and family. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that there are people that would like to rent them out and some that would not. There will not be a good answer for everyone. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated if we change the ordinance it will be everywhere, for everyone. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated CCR's protect that. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated right now an overlay works, but in 20 years it may not. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated he doesn't want to force it on people if they don't want it. He wants it to be a democracy for what the majority of people want. Then we can apply it accordingly. Right now, people have single family residential and that was their living style when they moved here. When we change it, we change it for the positive or negative. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated CCRs would protect it though, you are correct. Commission Lance Anderson stated that then you would need an HOA and people are for and against those as well. Mike Rodriguez stated Council Member Elliot was going to consider that in her ordinance. Commissioner Bob Morris stated maybe they have to license it in order to rent it out on a monthly basis and then it gives neighborhoods within so many feet to say not in there neighborhood. We will look at it with Staff and then see if we can do a survey and draft up something.