Chairman Bryan Pack stated that this version of the ordinance is what he did based solely on what was our previous discussion. He took what was presented by Dale Coulam originally, along with the version presented by Bob Morris' and he highlighted the areas where no discussion has happened yet. The blue markings are the areas where three Commissioners have indicated they would be in favor of it. The goal is to go through those first and say whether there are three in favor. If there are not, or discussion to have, then wait on that until after this first go-through so it can be fairly quick. The Commissioners have all seen this. The first one is on Pg 2 Line 53 and 54 to insert Color Identification and the Color Rendering Identification definition. Are there three of us in favor to leave this in or removing it and the definition as well? There are three that have voted to leave it in. Line 313 and 314 and line 317 on Pg 3 and Pg 4. The only reference to this as a measure is on Pg 2 of the document. Commissioner Doug Cifford stated so we would be calling it out but it has no measurement capability or a restriction in the ordinance. Why would we bother to put it in? Chairman Bryan Pack stated that he agrees with that reasoning, so let's come back to this. The next highlighted portion is Pg 5 line 164 and 166. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated this needs a more clear definition, so let's come back to this. Chairman Bryan Pack stated moving to Pg 6 lines 206 through 212 is the definition of Plasma Lamp. The definition came from Commissioner Bob Morris. Let's come back to this. Moving to Pg 7 lines 259 through 272. We will need to come back and talk about this. On Pg 8 lines 312 and 313 it is going from 20 watts to 250 lumens. He inquired if that is the equivalent? Commissioner Bob Morris stated no, 20 watts would be more. 250 lumens is less than 20 watts. This item has been voted on unanimously to bring this forward. Pg 9 line 323 is going from 6000 lumens to 1500 lumens. This moves forward unanimously. Line 335 and this is a change from a preferred use of high pressure sodium lamps to LED lighting for roadway street lights and trails, making it more energy efficient. This was voted on to move forward. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that this is where plasma lighting needs to be as well. That is the next up and coming lighting source. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated if we have any areas that are duplicated, we should combine them into one area. He remembers there being two sections that talk about the height of the poles. Dale Coulam stated this now contains all references to outdoor lighting. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that next is Pg 10 line 368 requesting a change from 2 to 3 lumens per sq ftg of parking lot surface. We will come back to this section. Pg 11 Line 426 is adding home accent lighting as exempt lighting. We will come back to this as well. Line 428-431 Section 22A is striking the word "unshielded" in this section. More discussion is needed on this subject. Section 22B Line 429-431 flashing, blinking and intermittent lights. Holiday lighting is permitted is struck out except during holidays. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that holidays is a broad term, so maybe it is US holidays. Chairman Bryan Pack stated let's come back to this. Pg 12 line 440 prohibiting electronic message boards is unanimous to bring forward. The next section is just renumbering items 1-5. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated without numbers there, it is unenforceable. Chairman Bryan Pack stated we will come back to this. Commissioner Doug Clifford is talking about is enforceable standards within the renumbering. Pg 13 lines 488 through 490. This was voted unanimous to go through. He stated that now we have narrowed it down somewhat let's talk about the definition of Color Rendering Index Pg 3 Line 113. He agrees that if we don't refer to it in the document, let's remove it. It doesn't add anything. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that it is the ability to tell colors, so if the 2200 kelvin filter is left in, you could not discern color, so maybe we should add it in here somewhere else. We need a light level that we discern what the guy breaking into that car was wearing, etc. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that may be, but we don't use Color Rending Index in that section. It is all in kelvins. We either need to add Color Rendering Index in there or remove it. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that he agrees. For safety and security it needs to be changed. At Rocky Vista University, you cannot discern color. Chairman Bryan Pack is the relationship between kelvin and Color Rendering Index equivalent? Is the Color Rendering Index for 2200 kelvin similar? Commissioner Bob Morris stated it depends on the light source. That is what affects the Color Rendering Index. They are different equivalents. Commissioner Lance Anderson inquired do we want to add another level of understanding with Color Rendering Index to distinguish the color of the light? Do we want to add another level of complexity to define light in order to enforce it? Chairman Bryan Pack stated if 3000 kelvin is different than 3000 kelvin of another type, then we should go to Color Rendering Index. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that kelvin relates to brightness. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that either put it in and understand it or leave it out. It is a valid measure to point out safety issues. This is an area to get an expert to understand it. Our 2200 kelvin lights we have for streetlighting, you cannot tell colors. Don't throw it out but it needs research to give us a definitive statement. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that the reason he put it in was more to disqualify light, than to try to make it a measure. If we say 2200 and a Color Rendering Index of 22 and you have to be above 50, that disqualifies that light as effective security lighting. You can have low kelvin with a Color Rendering Index above 50, but not 2200. But he is not a lighting expert. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated if this is to be a standard for our community and the goal is to get as low and unobtrusive lighting as possible and still have safety of our citizenry. We are starting to see situations where safety is being compromised. There are people that say we don't need any light to be safe. He doesn't believe that. We need to look for some kind of guidelines or national standards. It is a valid issue. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we as a community need to decide what we consider safe and what isn't safe and what our environment is. He feels safe in his subdivision with no light. This would be hard to enforce. Sometimes we create too many rules to be able to track and manage and enforce it. If we go to Color Rendering Index he worries about the application. He would like to hear the differing opinions on what our community thinks is safe. It is a lot different than being safe in New York or Salt Lake. Chairman Bryan Pack stated in stopping our review to get an expert, we would be spinning our wheels because we don't have City Council approval to do that. It is up to them to decide if that is necessary. If we push it forward, they can decide if we need an expert or they won't send it back and handle it themselves. Maybe we take it out and tell them they should look at Color Rendering Index as a potential avenue to address safety. Color Rendering Index can have a high number with a low kelvin. Brightness is preserved with a high Color Rendering Index. An expert could confirm that for us. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated we were asked to do our due diligence. If we find it important, we shouldn't move it on. We gather information for them, so they can make wise decisions. Dale Coulam stated true, but the Commission was given a defined scope. Cody Mitchell was asked if there were standards in the electrical code for Color Rendering Index, and he stated none that he was aware of. Dale Coulam stated so we don't have a code that we have adopted that would apply to this. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that when we mention kelvin, it should also have a Color Rendering Index above 50. That solves it. For safety it needs to say we can discern light and the standard Color Rendering Index above 50 allows people to discern colors. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated either put Bob Morris' statement in and put teeth in it or remove it entirely. It does no good to reference it, and then never use it. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated he worries what that number 50 means. We need to go out and see it in the dark. Put up a sample and go look at it. There are a lot of standards out there, and some we meet, some we don't meet, and some we don't care to meet as a community. Chairman Bryan Pack stated let's leave this out, and recommend to City Council that Color Rendering Index is worth exploring. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated we have had discussions about Color Rendering Index and it is a potential way to measure the color of light, and it may be helpful in our community. We are willing to spend the time to understand it, but until then, he can't say yes or no. We could move it on and let City Council know that it is a measurement of the color of the light. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated yes that's fine, but there is no reason to put it in the ordinance as-is. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so we take this out for now and the earlier reference to Color Rendering Index but our recommendation includes that we want to know if City Council would like us to consider it further. That applies to Page 2 and 3. Page 5 Lines 164-166 is the portion of the definition of kelvin. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he wants to put in a couple examples showing that 2700 is soft white and 4000 is bright, instead of that range. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that the next line is the answer to that. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated or we could just leave that out altogether. Dale Coulam stated the word "typically" needs to be removed. It is too vague. Chairman Bryan Pack stated take this middle sentence out and it doesn't harm the intent at all. Unanimous vote to remove it. Pg 6 do we want to accept Plasma Lamps Lines 206-212? Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that in searching for Plasma Lamps, he only saw lighting for greenhouses. Commissioner Bob Morris stated it is for parking lots, not residential. They are not here yet. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that is correct. They are not here yet. Chairman Bryan Pack inquired is kelvin and lumens are the equivalent measurement? Commissioner Bob Morris stated no. 90 lumens per watt, but you can't go by watts anymore because they are no longer efficient. It is more efficient lighting. The Plasma Lamp's source is smaller. It reduces the glare effect. LED has been around for ten years and we have an ordinance that doesn't even mention them, so you can leave this out too and revisit this in two years. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we should wait until those start to present themselves and revisit this ordinance when we know more about them and the measurement of them. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he would be in favor of including them now as long as we are not creating a situation where a kelvin on a Plasma Lamp is brighter to the eye than on an LED lamp. It doesn't sound like that is the case. Commissioner Bob Morris stated Color Rendering Index would be how we measure this and establish a minimum. Chairman Bryan Pack stated how does a Plasma Lamp use the kelvin scale? He is in favor of leaving it in and we have three that agree. Pg 7 Color temperature on Lines 259-272 and this is probably the biggest change to the ordinance. This is a drastic change and removes restrictions on residential properties and on commercial properties, or non-residential properties, it requires a color temperature expressed in kelvins of 4000 degrees kelvin plus or minus 200 degrees. It does not put a cap on it. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that this is where Color Rendering Index would be applied. 4000 should be the ceiling, the max, or less if you can meet the Color Rendering Index above 50. That is how he would like it to read. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that this was worked on for years with City Council and he would hate to move backward, so he is against this. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that CCT is a term for Correlated Color Temperature. We need to define that. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he thinks that is just kelvins, but he has never seen Correlated Color Temperature. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that is part of the original ordinance. That was not one of Commissioner Bob Morris' suggestions. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he understands, but either define it, or take it out. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he would leave it as-is, because it makes it clear it is measured in kelvins. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated but then let's write a definition that sees Correlated Color Temperature in our ordinance and make it clear. Then he is okay with this section. This is the hot button and what all the emails were all about. We could say between 38-42 kelvin rather than the plus or minus. If he is under the streetlamp in the parking lot looking for his car, can he tell the difference between 3000 versus 4000 kelvin? Dale Coulam stated that this topic with City Council was discussed, but it was a split decision back then to go with these numbers. This is an area that they would be interested in your recommendation. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that if we required Color Rendering Index above 50 it gives us an ability to see color and then a maximum of 4000 degrees kelvin. You can go as low as possible in your neighborhood and what you are comfortable with. The filter takes it down to 2200 in this ordinance. It requires it, and states what brand and filter has to be used. That doesn't help. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that it was about the availability of it at the time. He doesn't know what that availability is for the acrylic filter. This discussion went on for a year or two years. The City Council wants to know what we think, and he agrees we should define Correlated Color Temperature if we are using it here. He would like to leave it the way it was with the addition of Color Correlated Temperature definition because it was already in the ordinance. If we took out the filter it would be because it is unavailable to obtain 2200. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that the outdoor Correlated Color Temperature shall be 3000 degrees kelvin and was modified to 4000 by Commissioner Bob Morris. Is there an issue specifying the exact layout to be used? Is that a conflict or a monopoly for one company to have? Is that a taking? We are saying they have to have an exact amber filter. He likes what Commissioner Bob Morris has said, and 4000 kelvin doesn't seem like an increase that is too much and each individual community can darken that if they'd like to. We took out Color Rendering Index out of the conversation in previous sections, but somehow it keeps coming up as an important element to have if we want to change or modify this. Dale Coulam stated that he is uncomfortable with having just a single source because there could be something equally as good, for less cost. By making it a single source we are driving the price up. A question that comes to mind is if Correlated Color Temperature refers to color and Color Rendering Index refers to color, how do they compare, and do we need them both in there? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that when it was written for the amber filter, it was a single source to keep consistency throughout the City. It does drive up the price, but it is also easier for maintenance and repair. Dale Coulam stated that streetlights are a single source because of style, but if you use a numeric standard that makes a certain color then the color should be the same in every brand. So we should state what color it should be, but making it a single source has always been a concern since the ordinance was adopted. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated we just need a base, something to go off of to match. Dale Coulam stated that if an LED bulb came out that produced that color it would be much easier than retrofitting the lamps at all. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated if the bulb meets the requirement, great no filter needed, and it doesn't need to be a single source if they find one applicable to it. Chairman Bryan Pack inquired what is the measure we use when we say a bulb is a certain color? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated kelvin. Commissioner Doug Coulam stated he sees them defining color by Color Rendering Index or Correlated Color Temperature, or both. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so we go forward with kelvins and Correlated Color Temperature but recommend Color Rendering Index as an alternative application to safety. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that it is an apples to oranges comparison because Correlated Color Temperature is a measurement of color, and Color Rendering Index is the ability to resolve color in the surrounding light we are in. They are very different measures. Not the same at all. But Commissioner Bob Morris is trying to prioritize safety and find lighting that is a color that allows us to see what the color is of the surroundings we are looking at. Go to one of the 2200 kelvin streetlamps and have a multi-color shirt on, and everything looks brown and black. Is that bad? Animals see in black and white and they survive. It is an issue if trying to describe someone in a crime scene. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so rather than saying in 3A that outdoor lamps shall be no greater than 4000 degrees kelvin, plus or minus 200 degrees, let's say no greater than. His reasoning is that on commercial properties and non-residential properties and they can go less if they want to. He is in favor of 4000 degrees kelvin. He has three in agreement. This will be a hot button issue for City Council, and they will reaffirm what they did two years ago or look more closely into it with public input. He is also in favor of striking the acrylic filter, so it is a true 4000 degrees kelvin and not a 3000 degrees kelvin that is really 2200 degrees kelvin. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated about striking item B, that was just put in a couple years ago. Why do we not like that? Doug Coulam stated again it was a split decision by City Council and there was no public comment; that is one of the reasons this is all combined in the zoning ordinance now so that any changes require at least two public hearings. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired where is residential lighting then defined if we take it out of here? Chairman Bryan Pack stated the way it has been drafted there is no restriction on the Correlated Color Temperature on residential properties. He is not in favor of that. He would be in favor of a similar restriction on residential. Are there people that want to go a higher kelvin on their houses? Commissioner Bob Morris stated that 4000 kelvin is plenty and allows them to purchase off-the-shelf lighting. Nothing else has been touched. Trespass and downlighting are all still in here. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that we are putting maxes in here when the whole intent of the ordinance was to give a minimum. We are going from 2200 to 4000 and commercial was more restrictive, and residential was 2700. It is not about the individual homeowner, it is about what the community winds up with regarding light trespass. We have to figure out how to not create bright spots in the community. Chairman Bryan Pack stated in your opinion is it more important to get low kelvins or shielded lights? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated shielded is more important. He doesn't want to throw away all we have done, because the community may bring it back. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he wants this to go forward to City Council with public comments. He wants homeowners to have a freedom choice in the product they use. Shielding, downlighting, and prohibiting light trespass is still in here. The only thing changing in here is the color which he agrees can have an effect, and citizens should have freedom to choose what they want. HOA subdivisions can agree to more restrictive standards than what we have here. He is in favor of all outdoor lighting can be no more than 4000 degrees kelvin. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated let's move it forward as the ordinance is written. we will have a lot less people come forward if we don't change it. If they want to change it, let them come forward. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he does not agree. By making the change it highlights it. If we leave it the way it is, they don't see it or know it is an issue. There will be people on both sides. He thinks there are more that will want to change this, than not wanting to change it. Commissioner Lance Anderson so let's compromise and go to 3000-3200 kelvin. Commissioner Bob Morris stated let's push it forward. Chairman Bryan Pack stated City Council can change it to 3000 kelvin if they feel that way. He is comfortable with 4000 kelvin. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired are you putting back in the filter and residential at 2700 kelvin. Chairman Bryan Pack stated no, his proposal is with what is written by Commissioner Bob Morris. Everything he has struck out and in favor of 4000 kelvin with two changes. That the outdoor lamps are a maximum of 4000 degrees kelvin and not a requirement and instead of limiting 3A to non-residential properties, change it to all outdoor lighting. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired if that means that bollards and all that comes back in? Chairman Bryan Pack stated he doesn't think we need to specify. We say all outdoor lighting. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated the way he reads it, right now they are excluded. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he is saying put a limit on it as the commercial does right now. We are not pushing this off at all. He agrees fully with Commissioner Bob Morris. Protecting the dark sky with regard to downlighting, shielding and light trespass are preserved 100%. Saying all outdoor lighting shall have no more than 4000 degrees kelvin, as his personal preference, in his neighborhood everyone that talks to him has expressed a desire for, that is what he is in favor of. City Council may change that. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated he agrees. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated he totally disagrees. He hopes everyone comes to the meeting. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that he disagrees as well. Commissioner Bob Morris stated there is a typo on Line 305 where it reads that the max footcandle permitted on ground is one horizontal footcandle or less. You would have to have a one watt LED lamp to achieve that. Make that an average of one horizontal footcandle or less. We just need to clarify that. Voted unanimous to make that change. Pg 10 Section 17 Line 368 changing the maximum initial lumens per square foot of parking lot surface from 2 to 3 initial lumens. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he doesn't know the difference. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that it was too restrictive. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he doesn't have any data. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he recommends leaving it at two. Commissioner Bob Morris stated he will research if our parking lots are meeting the national standard of the electrical engineers' association and be lit to a safe level. He wants to make sure we meet the minimum requirements for standard of safety. Chairman Bryan Pack stated Pg 11 Line 426 the proposal to exempt home accent lighting from the lighting ordinance. Commissioner Lance Anderson inquired what percent is residential versus commercial? Why exempt it? One of the biggest complaints we see is about homes that light trespass to their neighbors. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that home accent lighting is defined on top of Pg 5 as permanent architectural lighting installed in such a fashion that it has to be invisible during daylight. The intent is the permanently installed Christmas lights, correct? Commissioner Bob Morris stated yes one of the brands Everlight has many homes in their neighborhood that have installed these. This is around the perimeter of the roof and they are not visible to the eye. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated this is a poorly defined loophole as written. Home accent lighting is like architectural lighting, not holiday lighting. It seems like a giant hole. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so now knowing Commissioner Bob Morris' intent, would a more narrow definition that limits it just to the permanent Christmas lights help? They can turn them on whatever color they want though. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated but those are not invisible during daylight. Commissioner Bryan Pack So you would not see them. Do we need to come up with a definition just referring to those? Does that solve the problem? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated they can use them any day of the year? He would like them to relate to holiday lighting. Under the eaves of the house and specific to holidays. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated let's just call it holiday lighting, not home accent lighting. Commissioner Bob Morris stated limiting peoples ability to accent the eaves of their home the way they want to is preposterous. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that these lights can go on year-round and that defies what we are trying to do and does not protect the night sky. He thinks we should change it to holiday lighting. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated that he agrees with Commissioner Lance Anderson that accent lighting should only be on during the holidays. Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years Day. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he agrees with the holidays. Are these limited for light pollution and be hooded, downward facing? Contained to their property? Chairman Bryan Pack stated these lights don't bother him so he has no issue with the way it is drafted, but if we strike it out of the exemptions and Item G is no longer an exception to the lighting ordinance and we simply consider these to be holiday lights and define that as the middle of November to the beginning of January, would you agree to that? Chairman Jeff Loris stated he agrees. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that holiday lights can't be shielded, or you wouldn't see them during the holidays. just a caveat with a little more of an explanation. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he agrees as long as it is seasonal. He doesn't want it out all year and light up the street. Chairman Bryan Pack stated so let's take home lighting out of Section 21 and define holiday lighting that is only during those times and unshielded then. And accepting 22B Lines 429-431 except holiday lighting on the last line. Commissioner Bob Morris stated that he feels like people don't understand what these lights are. These are accent lighting that are on timers, but people have spent thousands and now we are saying they can only use them one month out of the year. Chairman Bryan Pack stated that this would not be retrospectively. They are not obtrusive in his opinion. Commissioner Bob Morris stated every 6 inches there is a very small LED the size of a pea. They are programmable. They can flash to music. He wants them exempted. Chairman Bryan Pack stated during holidays they look like Christmas lights, but they are not quite as bright. You can see the point of light coming off the bulbs and rest in the eaves. They don't shine on plants or the wall really even and if you drive past in the daylight, you have to look closely to see them. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated when he searches home accent lighting, it is all for landscape. Can we define it? Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that he agrees that to him home accent lighting means shining on landscape. It is low-light lighting and enhances the shrubs and the number on your home. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he would prefer to exempt them with a more narrow definition as Commissioner Bob Morris has intended. So let's leave this Line 426 as unresolved. Line 428 shows that we struck unshielded but then left it in another spot. Should we remove this change and leaving it as originally drafted? Three are in agreement to remove that change. 22B the only change is grammatical from "is" to "are." Three in favor of that change. Define holiday lights as lights intended to celebrate the holidays from November to January. Commissioner Jeff Loris stated some of the elements that were in the prohibited marquee signs verbiage were used in that element. Because we are allowing intermittent flashing holiday lighting here. Chairman Bryan Pack stated maybe we define holiday lighting as residential. Commissioner Lance Anderson stated that there are time frames we put lights up for the City. We should exempt them. Dale Coulam stated we do them the same time frame. There might be lights on Heritage Days. Commissioner Bob Morris stated lots of people put up lights for Halloween in October. Chairman Bryan Pack stated he agrees with that. Let's move it to the Public Hearing next meeting. He will update this draft. Dale Coulam stated that Cody Mitchell researched the parking lot lumens and it is two lumens per sq ft for a 20 foot pole and that is what the code requires. Line 368 Pg 10. Cody Mitchell stated that it is a max of 2 initial lumens per sq ft of parking lot. Chairman Bryan Pack stated we are in agreement to striking that out.