Mike Haycock stated that we have heard from the people are we ready to send this to City Council. It is up to the Commission if they have changes or want to set it up for a Public Hearing next meeting. Chairman Dave Robinson stated this is just a discussion item this meeting, but if we are good with it, we would set it up in two weeks for a Public Hearing. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that he is a little confused with what we were tasked to do and what we would have a Public Hearing on next meeting. Just the land use and zoning portion? Certainly not the General Plan, because that is a major project. He wants to be more specific on what the Public Hearing is on. Mike Haycock stated that July this year the State will come down with requirements, which is basically a form we will fill out to meet moderate income housing requirements to comply with State law. We have that form to submit this year and we will get that form in July. We need to see what their definition is of moderate income housing before we touch the General Plan. In previous years the numbers were off because of how they analyzed it. The State is going to tell us more about what those price ranges are to achieve moderate income housing levels. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that she listened to a Utah League of Cities and Towns presentation about moderate income housing and they said that it is 80% or below of the area median income. Depending on where we are in the State, that could be a different amount. Mike Haycock stated this is done through workforce services and it sounds like they will give us the number for our area. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated then we will have our demographics to know what that number is to define median income housing. Mike Haycock stated yes they are getting closer to having that information in July. They have the formula but not the definition. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that we are at a halfway point. We are getting ready to approve the land use plan without having the General Plan redone and approved. At the same time we have already designated certain areas in the community as Low Density Residential, Medium Density Residential or High Density Residential. Mike Haycock stated the most important thing we did on the land use plan was where the RA-1 and RA-5 zones are, it says see the land use plan. Chairman Dave Robinson stated if we are moving to a Public Hearing in two weeks will be talking about both land use and the zoning maps? Mike Haycock stated yes we will advertise it to be specific, but it is all under the envelope of land use changes. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we were being pushed a bit by City Council to do this, even though we can't do the General Plan right now. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we are talking as if we are in the General Plan review portion, but we are just picking out a piece that came based on comments of people not understanding why zoning changes around them in their mind, without any reason or input. Doing a total General Plan review is a major project. There are a lot of "to be determined" on this page and he realizes first hand updating this takes awhile. He wants to make sure we are clear about the piece we are attacking and then focus just on that. Then if we want to put together the overall General Plan review, that is a separate item. Mike Haycock stated that the land use portion of it, is the three traffic corridors and adding densities to those. It is not just the asterisk on the zoning but we have done some land use. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that as she understood, as far as the General Plan we started by looking at land use because that is Chapter 4 in the General Plan and we have had the public input meetings last week. Having a discussion about what we heard that will form our ultimate decision. People who came to these meetings wanted to have a voice and we want to demonstrate we heard them. In relation to the General Plan as a whole, she heard we have been charged to look at the entire plan so she put this packet together just going page by page through the General Plan to see what we would need to look at. It is a big job. What she put under action in red she was thinking we could have a Public Hearing and maybe combine a couple chapters. She wouldn't recommend we try to do the whole thing in one sitting with the public, let's spend time going through this. Chapter 2 it looked like it was time since 2014 was what she could see was the last time it was reviewed. Maybe the tables and figures need to be updated. Are we ready to have the Public Hearing? Mike Haycock stated we don't have to vote in two weeks. If you do the Public Hearing and need more information table it until you are ready. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we all seem to think that we should have looked at the General Plan first before we did all of this. We have kind of had to do it in steps. He doesn't see anything that we have done on this land use plan that would end up defeating what we are doing in the General Plan. City Council gave us this charge and then that was the direction we went. Mike Haycock stated a Councilmember at the time did not want to vote for anything High Density Residential until we looked at the Land Use Plan. That was the mandate. The only reason the General Plan was just in case it needed to be discussed during the land use. People didn't understand what the RA-1 and RA-5 zones were, and we have addressed that to show people what those holding zones meant. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated that also it was to get a better idea what those areas should be zoned. It was not just about high density, but people bought homes and in some cases paid extra for view lots only to have those zones changed from RA-1 or RA-5 to 7500 sq ft lots or townhomes. His understand was that it was part of our charge to look at that and see how we wanted those zones so as people move into our community they have a better idea of what is going to happen next door. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the answer to that was the land use plan. That is why we refer back to it. If you are looking at RA-1 or RA-5 you need to also look at the Land Use Plan to see what the future vision for that area is. That is how we were approaching it because we don't have the right to just go in and change zoning of property owners. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated City Council makes the final decision. We give the suggestions. We are not creating anything, just giving ideas. City Council will take it from there. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the he would like to go through the comment cards briefly. There were a lot of comments that came in that were out of the realm of what we are dealing with right now. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that if there was one item listed multiple times, she put the number of times that item was referred to. The data is pulled right out of what Sharon Allen put together. She just put themes to each one, and the Commission may see those differently. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that there was an email that came in as well. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated that Cherise Spencer emailed in, but it was not sent to Sharon Allen to distribute. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that both had good comments. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that he has those comments here for the Commission to review as well. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated we could look at the items first that relate to land use and to our charge. She is heartened that people felt that they could come to the meeting and that whatever their issue was, we gave them a forum to discuss it. It may or may not have been related to what was happening, but we were there to listen. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated this list is only a page and a half. We can go through them quickly. Chairman Dave Robinson read the comment card list that was attached to the agenda. First comment was they don’t like brightly-colored houses, pink, blue, green, etc. They don’t mind white or off-white homes. Another was keep the colors of the houses similar not blue, green, or white. We are dealing with those on a separate issue. Another comment was when one sends an email to City Council, it would be nice to get a response. That goes for us as well. When we get an email we should probably respond to let people know we received it and read it. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that when she first moved into the community there was an issue that was a big deal, and she sent an email and Commissioner Bob Morris responded. We had an engaging dialogue on the issue and she respected that he spoke up and engaged with me, and we both listened. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment was asking if the maps are online. He assumes they are referring to accessibility. Sometimes it is hard to find on the website. The land use maps and zoning maps can be found online but can sometimes be difficult to find the information. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that someone commented quit tearing up the lava fields. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we have requirements that if lava fields are a certain depth, we cannot disturb them. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that some of that is being protected. The next comment was 600 West and Hwy 91 High Density Residential and Commercial Resort do not make sense in today's current housing development. That may have been a future thing that they do not want to see happen. The other comment was that Ivins is now a pleasant quiet area which is why we like it. Additional density and development just brings more congestion and noise and decreases the quality of life for the current residents. Part of the problem here is going back to the General Plan and to what the State mandates, there is certain amount of High Density we have to meet, whether we like it or not. We do our best to put those in areas that are similar, not doing High Density next to Low Density. We are bound by the State's rules on that. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated these comments speak to the citizens desires to keep the community feel we have. We all want that. This is an opportunity as a Commission and a City to communicate some of the challenges the community faces and show proactively how we are trying to maintain the inevitability of growth. We should stress what those strategies are. At the two open house meetings she attended, comments she heard is if we are doing an effective job as possible at showing that we honor or care about these things. Maybe we look at how to communicate more broadly on some of these items. Commissioner Derek Larsen inquired where do we put High Density Residential and attainable housing? The concern seems to be on where that happens. Some people love the fact that we have apartments along Hwy 91. Most people appear not to. We need to discuss those areas and where we want those in the City. In keeping with the General Plan and our citizens look for areas where they are not as visible, affect the view or affect as much traffic. South of Ryders and down that hill has been a great place because it does not obstruct views. People hate the fact that next to the University we have the three apartment buildings in the middle of town. We need to look at the General Plan and what was intended and what the State says we have to have to present to the City Council and let them take it from there. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated she cautions using words like out of the way. We are talking about a community and view is more than how many people live in a structure. How do we create an integrated sense of community like we talk about in the General Plan? The wise placement of whatever the development is, there is a sense that we not isolate from being a community. How is a development, whether it is dorms or single family homes or high density placed to create a sense of community and integration and allow us all to have a view of what is irreplaceable here? Commissioner Doug Clifford stated a lot of these comments is change. Change is always difficult and growth in a community is never linear. It is never an equal amount of high-end, low and mid-range happening at the same time. It goes in bits and spurts. He hears all the time that Ivins is not for families, it is for adults. That attitude is very prevalent here. Because of that, developers for the last five years have focused on mid to high-end. It has caused a real deficit in low to mid-income housing. We have taken some steps like accessory dwelling units to try to fill in the gaps to make it a little more possible to put some smaller homes in. We are just starting to see developers turning to try to address the issue of adding more moderate income housing. That is where zoning and land use really come in. We have to take a long term view. Developers are looking for right now, the current view of what is happening in the economy and local area and build those types of homes. If we don't have places that are adequate or appropriate for moderate income housing, then it won't happen. That is why land use and the reaction to what the State will require in July is an important event. It has to have some teeth in it. In the past it has never moved into an action item in the hearts and minds of developers. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated that when he mentioned out of the way he means the height of the building. The more doorknobs you put per acre the less your land cost is and the lower the price of the home can be. It would be a good place because of the topography of the land. As we build out, more parks build a sense of community. It lends itself to a three story building there and won't affect views. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that is what we have tried with buffer zones so we aren't putting High Density Residential in the middle of Low Density. That was our intent. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that people are concerned about how tall buildings can be. Chairman Dave Robinson stated there is a difference between residential and commercial structures heights. Mike Haycock stated that it is 25 ft for single family and commercial is 35 ft. There are some differences if they have a walk-out basement. You can go 1.5 ft or 2.5 ft off the crown of the road. The State may also be stepping in to regulate height. Watch for that. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that is a safety issue as well if we don't have the fire apparatus to fight fires for tall structures, we can't allow them to be built. Mike Haycock stated developers pay for a Fire Department impact fee so that they can purchase the things we need. There is an argument both ways. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment was to please keep Ivins Low-Density. The increase in traffic takes away from the livability of the City. There are some State requirements we have to fill, but we do our best. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that we don't tend to put Low Density Residential and High Density Residential right next to each other. We buffer that zoning. Obviously in a High Density situation we would have more traffic, but we put High Density Residential next to major arterial streets so that access is easier and roads are already in place for those. We are trying to do that. We are not going to have an all Low-Density community. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment was to add to the land use plan and the municipal plan for fire and EMS and future stations. This comment was brought up by multiple people as a concern. Some of it is out of our hands. Ivins is in charge of the Public Safety side and Santa Clara is in charge of fire and EMS. He agrees we need to look at that in the future. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that the Mayor has been vocal as well that this needs to change. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that the next comment was regarding neighborhoods. Concern of changing from Resort Mixed Use to Medium Density Residential on the sandbox. That is 400 East and 200 South to 400 South. That would be Hafens fields and they go on to say this area makes more sense to leave Medium Density Residential. The homes around it are smaller, medium-income, older homes. There are lots of children and seniors to the center of town. A Resort Mixed Use shape could make the rest of the area hard to develop. Please keep them one-story. They bought there two years ago based on the land use plan of the continued Medium Density Residential in that area. He stated that his understanding is that Resort Mixed Use was not so much about being high density, but getting community centers for restaurants and a commercial center. That is what our intention of that was. Mike Haycock stated yes and we did discuss taking resort from the mixed use zone with homes on the top and businesses on the bottom so they could afford to live where they work and attract professionals. He doesn't know that Ivins is big enough for that type of a concept. Chairman Dave Robinson stated it was about creating a community area. Mike Haycock stated bubbles aren't set by metes and bounds at all. It just means that in this area we want to buffer what is there. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that Resort Mixed Use kind of confuses some people because they think of places like Black Desert Resort or Sentierre. Mike Haycock stated it is just the only avenue you have right now. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that the next comment was that they would love for Ivins to have more of a sense of community. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated we have pockets of community and we are a mobile environment. She spoke with this person commenting and there was a hope of more cross-bumping into people so that people come to the area from surrounding areas across town rather than always being in our cars and behind our walls. Unity Park was packed with soccer and it was wonderful. Connecting people throughout the community is a challenge. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that we do a neighborhood party in our area and we do it in several block sections. We have had one at Halloween and at Christmas and we have had up to 250 people show up to these parties with music and food and games for the kids. Community is responsible for itself, and not relying on the City to create that. People need to step up and be willing to talk to their neighbors and plan things like that in his opinion. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that the sense of community is created just by living here where our homes are, recreation and commercial. That is what draws people together. That comes back to looking at the land use and trying to put in regional pockets of parks to get away from their particular square of property where they can talk to people and interact that way. It also helps to have a light Commercial in those areas so people can purchase something. It leads us back to the whole idea of looking at the City and making some suggestions for how best to develop and have that sense of community. It comes from the interaction of people and getting out and about. It is important to have these little pockets around. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated that it was a comment about how many benches to put along the trails. That is where conversations happen. She lived in Bellevue, Washington and it rains all the time. On every corner cross-section is a gazebo and there were always people sitting there. Are we finding spontaneous ways to allow people to connect and interact? Commissioner Bob Morris stated there are also some wonderful religious organizations that promote community. We have strong faith-based groups and so those that don't feel connected just realize there are congregations and local community members to meet together and worship together. That is available to them so they don't feel isolated. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated they open up their gyms to pickleball. Commissioner Bob Morris stated yes and basketball. These are also centers that encourage community. Chairman Dave Robinson stated he would like to see a nice dog park in this town. When he was in Phoenix, they met people all over the area and they became a group that you couldn't wait to visit with again and watch the dogs play. We are deemed dog-friendly here, but he would love to see a dog park for this community. The next comment was regarding Public Safety, publishing and communicating a plan about fire and EMT future locations and efforts to realize it. Way more important than parks and pickleball. He agrees we need to get a plan together to do it. He doesn't necessarily think it is a replacement for pickleball and playgrounds. The very next comment is that we need pickleball, tennis and other sports spread throughout Ivins. Unity Park has too much going on. Commissioner Derek Larsen doesn't the City have plans for a station on Kwavasa? Chairman Dave Robinson stated that his understanding is that we don't have the property. Lance Anderson stated that the new Fire Chief is doing a study. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the Mayor mentioned we have planned one but there is no property there yet. Lance Anderson stated that he has worked on this with six different fire chiefs and have talked about it being by Ence corrals and they have a full set of plan and we are moving that direction but the Fire Chief is looking at it from the ISO rating. His opinion is that it is good access to all. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated he believes it was in the budget last year with building permit fees at City Council to afford the land. That was the reason for the increase. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that communities sometimes have features they become known for. Boise, Idaho has amazing river trails that run through their City. We have an incredible area for cycling and several shops in town for bikes and rentals and great trails. There may be some things we could do to provide amenities at end trails and make them safe and better lighting on cycling roadways. We are a very active cycling community. The new Canyon Crossing is a small gold mine. We should emphasize this open outdoor environment we are known for as much as we can. Chairman Dave Robinson stated he agrees. The next comment is to maintain a General Plan for Ivins as a resort destination, we need to hire someone to work to bring in this type of facility. In addition, more businesses that cater to using and enjoying the outdoors, like a small convention center to host events and conferences. Someone asked him why we don't have a community center, but he just doesn't know we are a big enough tax base. He likes the idea. People that spoke with him were concerned about what kind of commercial we were seeking. That we were not going after industrial manufacturing. That is not our intent but they wondered who from the City finds these businesses to come here? The Mayor has in many cases. We don't have the money to head up economic development for the City. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated Black Desert Resort and Sentierre will fill that need and they will both have access as far as shops, restaurants and trails that are all open to the community to use. It is coming. Commissioner Pam Gardiol inquired what is the feeling we want our community to have? Let that drive not only the kind of uses, but how many and where we put them so there is still a sense of community and have amenities. We don't want to turn into a major metropolitan area. We need to balance what we bring in and where we stop. We don't want to compromise the feel within the community. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we have done that well with the areas we chose Resort Mixed Use. The next comment is benches to encourage walking and keep traffic lights out of Ivins. This may never be an issue in Ivins. They love their roundabouts. Having certain locations for biking some of the locations in St George have air compressors right at the trail heads so they can repair a tire. The next comment is about assisted living facilities in commercial and residential to employ people and don't use as much water as homes. They are good neighbors and Ivins residents could stay here instead of moving away when it becomes necessary. We do have one here for veterans. We have nothing against them, just have not had one proposed. Mike Haycock stated that someone would need land and the willingness and desire to build that type of vision. The next comment was the same and if we can plan for an aging population on potential commercial property? Another stated it could be a real jewel used for the current residents of Ivins and in the future. We need to be sure it is in the table of uses, but more than that, we just need someone that is interested. Another comment was charging stations added to the table of uses. Businesses deal with that. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we would want to look at it though as a special case basis. For example, the number of parking spaces allocated to a particular business. A lot of charging stations are part of a business. What that would mean for our zoning is the need for additional parking spaces as a requirement for some of these businesses if they want charging stations attached. Canyon Crossing would be a natural place for charging stations. Mike Haycock stated it doesn't have to be listed as a specific use. Wal-mart has several and rarely has one charging in it. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that is changing though. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that Starbucks on the corner has a charging station and it is always full. Mike Haycock stated if a Tesla station wanted to come they'd look at more high density areas where there is a lot of traffic going past. Chairman Dave Robinson stated they look at high-flow traffic corridors. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that was a good point. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment is that Ivins needs an Economic Development Director to recruit businesses, especially along Hwy 91. St George is becoming a tech hub and we should take advantage tying into this with smaller firms and satellite offices. Many people work from home now. The Mayor didn't think we had the money for that, but someone could take on the role but we don't have anyone hired to do that. Mike Haycock stated we would be showing what land use is available for companies and right now our land use plan doesn't show that. We would first have to put that in our General Plan and then zone for it. He believes Ivins' goal is to attract resorts. We have done a very good job of doing that. Chairman Dave Robinson stated also the support for those with restaurants and things like that. He agrees. Commissioner Pam Gardiol inquired what is the theme and who are we as a community? Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment is regarding traffic on Hwy 91. They are concerned about the increased traffic on Center Street west of 400 West. They would like to see vehicular traffic to Kayenta area encouraged to use Hwy 91 instead of Center Street. He believes the reason Center Street got put in was to reduce traffic and accidents on Hwy 91. The next comment he is sure everyone would like to see and that is the powerlines on Hwy 91 to be moved underground. There were five comments voicing this. There are probably five just in this room. That is out of our jurisdiction and figuring out who is paying for it. The next comment is commercial neighborhoods on Kwavasa is not near a minor arterial or minor collector street. Consider moving that south to 200 North or Center. Where we did place that is right at the end of Center Street. That is right on an arterial route. Mike Haycock stated they may have been confused with the existing one that is already there, rather than the sandbox map. Chairman Dave Robinson stated the next comment is to redo 200 West due to High Density traffic. He would say 400 as well. The last comment inquired on the timetable for the reservoir plan. That is the Washington County Water Conservancy District. We don't have a say in that. They also asked if there is a plan for water conservation and the City Council is working diligently right now on putting that together. They wanted to know how many people can Ivins support? That would depend on potential lots and how much water is available. Lance Anderson stated 18-23k based off the land use and General Plan. Last comment is what is the end game? Being this is under the water category, they have backed off the Lake Powell pipeline project but it is still being sought after. Based on all of these comments is there anything we need to change on the sandbox land use plan? He stated that he didn't read Cherise Spencer's email and Lisa Ganz but they had a lot of the same concerns. Commissioner Derek Larsen stated we have read them. They wanted to be sure we plan for families which is tough because what sells in Ivins right now is more fitting for retirees. That is the market. He would love to see more family neighborhoods. It was hard to get applicants for the Ivins Youth Council and with our demographic, there is just less youth at that age in our City per capita than there used to be. That is just the way the City has developed. He would love to see more neighborhoods zoned for larger homes and for families. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we had a discussion on property and land costs. He studied it a bit and called a couple real estate agents he knows. Land costs are 20-30% the cost of construction right now. It really kills being able to build affordable housing at $200k+ for a lot. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that the Mayor has been looking into public lands that would have housing on it with the idea that when the homes eventually sell, a portion of the money would come back to the City and a portion to the owner. It is an idea to get some more lower-income housing because people can't afford the land. If it was a grant, that would change the whole idea of how those homes could be built. That would take some real doing and a change in land use. If you look at our community, we almost are going to have to have something like that. We can't tell owners they can't get market value because we need affordable housing. That is not fair to them. We are stuck in a dilemma. It's a free market system and we have to live with it. Chairman Dave Robinson stated along those same lines when people go to sell those homes, there needs to be a way that they don't get wealthy off the house sale, and then it is no longer affordable housing. It would have to be somehow contractually worked out without the land cost value so the next owner can get it at a reasonable value. Any changes that we need to do the sandbox land use plan or are we good to put this to Public Hearing in two weeks? Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we didn't have a whole lot of people that first night. It was too windy and no one wanted to come out. He hopes the other nights had more. His impression was that there is a lot of confusion of land use and zoning. He felt people walked away still not understanding that land use is a plan that may or may not be realized. It is a concept. Zoning is real and nails down what a project looks like. They are not tied together. The land use plan can change within a certain range based on what an owner or buyer would like to do. People felt like we were trying to master plan our community. A community grows and evolves as an amorphous thing that happens as a big web that is all tied together but grows and changes. We can't tell in ten years what we will have in all these areas. We need people to understand that. When we show the land use plan, people think it is cast in concrete. Chairman Dave Robinson stated he would recommend that we move ahead with a Public Hearing and if it brings forward other comments we would like to evaluate, we can postpone a decision. Commissioners were all in unanimous agreement.