Mike Haycock stated that he would like to start by pointing out what developers do not like about the Resort Mixed-Use zone and why they choose Resort Commercial instead. Under the requirements it states that if any structure containing a residential use is two or more stories, there will be no residential on the ground floor. Resort Mixed-Use requires a mixed use of residential and commercial. The developers chose the Resort Commercial because it has no requirements in that kind of detail. We want to make something in the Resort Mixed-Use zone that a developer can develop in. This may also be a good place to take a look at density, and mold it into something a developer would like and also be used for Moderate-Income Housing. It starts at 50% of the buildings having a mixed-use. The State Moderate-Income Housing requirement says it needs to be around transportation corridors. Most of our transportation corridors already have residential around it. There is a need for buffering. If there were four stories, parking under, a main level retail and two stories of housing above. That is what he believes the State is looking for. We would also have to look at the table of uses to make sure they are consistent. Chairman Dave Robinson inquired if this would interrupt our height requirement? Mike Haycock stated that he put in there that if you can't buffer you must lower the heights of the buildings. If there is residential on three sides, they all need buffering, he wrote a 75 ft buffer as a starting place. If they can't do it on those sides, then they need to reduce those heights. To make Moderate-Income Housing affordable, you have to have density, and a developer will need to have some commercial there also. He put in some parameters, but the Commission is welcome to give their thoughts and adjust this to make it affordable, but not take property rights from the people that have this zone already. There is only one parcel currently zoned Resort Mixed-Use. The Resort Commercial zone is basically the RM zone which controls density with height and amenity requirements. The base is 15% and then you can get a higher density by area. Fifteen acres could have one acre without any amenities. Councilmember Mike Scott sent out a list of different requirements he would like to see when we have short-term rentals in the areas that we already have Resort Commercial, like parking. Part Three is all new and it is changed to say Resort Commercial and mirrors the old RM zone. Commissioner Perry Brown stated that currently there is only one Resort Mixed-use zone in the whole city. Chairman Dave Robinson stated he is thinking of the land between the college and the elementary school. Why do we have Resort Mixed-Use, RM and Resort Commercial? Mike Haycock stated that we aren't doing anything with the RM zone except copying from it. It stays the same. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated what are we trying to attract? Mike Haycock stated we are not trying to attract resorts anymore. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that we should go back to the driving issues we have with the current zones before changing zones. We need to identify those issues. Mike Haycock stated that Resort Commercial has no density requirements, that's what makes it attractive. We need to move the density control over to that zone instead of leaving it wide open so that there will be amenities and open space. Commissioner Pam Gardiol inquired if commercial on the bottom, residential on the top a stipulation that we are being held to? If we get rid of that option, how do we align with what the legislation requires? Mike Haycock stated Resort Mixed-Use doesn't have to be the Moderate-Income Housing zone. He took this opportunity to try to mold it into what could be for Moderate-Income Housing zone. If that is not the zone, we need to develop one that is specifically along the transportation corridor and that meets the mixed-use requirements. That needs to be taken care of. If it is not in the Resort Mixed-Use zone, we need to figure out where to put it. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we have a zone no one likes to use. Let's fix that. Mike Haycock stated that is your call. Chairman Dave Robinson inquired what is the purpose of the two zones? Mike Haycock stated short-term rentals and horizontal hotels are Resort Commercial and those are already zoned. Those owners are in the resort hotel business. All we need to do with that zone is to control density in those zones and Councilmember Mike Scott's list. Chairman Dave Robinson stated those are already established. We can't make them meet new standards. Do we have any other locations where it would play a role moving forward? Mike Haycock stated it depends. He was asked to put some bite into the Resort Commercial zone. Chairman Dave Robinson stated it feels like we are running in every direction. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated if we are making changes to it, let's go to the beginning and lay everything out where we want them. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated the tail is wagging the dog. Developers don't want to build in this zone, so we are getting rid of it. That doesn't sit well with her. Mike Haycock stated the problem is they ran to the Resort Commercial zone because there aren't any requirements. We can get rid of the Resort Mixed-Use zone, but we still have one parcel with that. This may not be the best way, but it is a starting point. There are different ways to do it. It is a problem looking for a solution. Chairman Dave Robinson stated he understands that Resort Mixed-Use is over-regulated and Resort Commercial is under-regulated. Mike Haycock stated he is presenting this but any direction you want to go is in your court. The Mayor likes the mansion-type affordable housing, which are apartments that look like a really big house. That would be under a development agreement, and it is divided into units. That could be in either the Resort Commercial or the Resort Mixed-Use zone. The State is looking, before the end of this year, for us to have a zone with a multi-use development of both residential and commercial, along our transportation corridors. We need to figure out how to get there. Commissioner Perry Brown stated just get rid of Resort Mixed-Use. Mike Haycock stated there is no consequence other than you still have one parcel in the Resort Mixed-Use zone. Commissioner Perry Brown stated the owner could ask for a change in that zone too. Mike Haycock stated yes. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated he likes the Mayor's concept as well of multi-resident structures that look like large homes. You can get density that way. How do we structure a zone that allows and encourages those? Mike Haycock stated we have to stay on the commercial side to meet development agreements and enforce design guidelines. To meet the State for moderate-income housing, it has to be a mixed-use. Podium buildings aren't as popular but it is the only way he knows to get to what the State is asking for. It would have a parking garage below, retail on the main level, and high-density above. There may be other ways of getting there. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired why are they so adamant about mixed-use? The commercial aspect? Mike Haycock stated they are trying to bring the bus rider to allow them to buy a condo along a corridor. We are not a walkable community. Everyone has cars, so this is for the people that can't afford a car and a condo. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we have to be reasonable and realistic about what we are doing here. We are not downtown Salt Lake City. The idea of mixed-use is not a really great idea. This is a low-density residential community. Mike Haycock stated then we would need to amend our moderate-income housing goals with the State. That is frowned upon. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated you can't push a rock uphill. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that the State no longer allows us to visually guide residential zones but with commercial, we can. Mike Haycock stated we need to figure out how to do it Ivins way. Mixed-Use is residential and commercial. How do we do that without going over 35 feet in a commercial zone? Chairman Dave Robinson stated his suggestion is to get rid of Resort and call RC "residential commercial". We are still trying to get a commercial aspect here. We are not trying to build more hotels. Mike Haycock stated we changed the table of uses so you can build homes in the Resort Commercial zone without it being short-term rentals. Dale Coulam stated we have so many that are zoned Resort Commercial, we would have to separate that abbreviation. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that is right. He understands, but it is a shotgun blast going rather than a target. We are trying to manipulate multiple zones at a time. Mike Haycock stated so we can leave the Resort Mixed-Use zone alone and work on Resort Commercial like City Council asked. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated she agrees. Mike Haycock stated the State is asking for results and he can't do an application on a property, so no matter what we do, a builder still needs to come in and ask for it. We can't force parties to come together to get an actual result. On the last moderate-income housing report, we couldn't say how many units a rezone accomplished. They want a number on the result. Commissioner Perry Brown inquired which Resort Commercial zones are developed or under development? There are three large parcels to deal with there. Mike Haycock stated that Councilmember Mike Scott is concerned about parking and density in the Resort Commercial zone. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that underground parking in some of those areas could be really bad, especially adjacent to the wash. Mike Haycock stated that wasn't part of the Resort Commercial zone. The Resort Commercial zone was to replicate the RM zone and give trade-offs for lowering buildings and adding amenities to allow more density. Commissioner Perry Brown stated if we leave the Resort Commercial zone alone, someone can come in without a lot of restrictions on those large parcels. If we made an entirely new Mixed-Use zone, we would have to put it somewhere when someone applied. Currently we have three Resort Commercial parcels now that we wouldn't be able to control density and amenities on. Dale Coulam stated the zone that existed is vested at the time that they got their approvals. Red Mountain Spa will expand, and they are vested in that height requirement and are undergoing planning, relying on that approved zone. The economic summit he attended had a breakout session for commercial development and the question for the panel was about Mixed-Use. They stated it works in some areas, but it doesn't work in a lot of areas and pointed to Southern Utah as compared to the Wasatch Front. You don't want the commercial portion dragging down the entire development. It is a gamble to go with mixed-use. There needs to be more flexibility because the commercial may not go in. Mike Haycock stated any changes would be new to any new Resort Commercial zoning. Dale Coulam stated yes and they use a development agreement in their planning. That has been pretty successful. We could also go with Multi-Family to regulate our design requirements and wouldn't need to be commercial. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated regarding not having viable commercial on the first level, Ogden's 25th Street has something similar and it has evolved. The housing came secondary, and there are bakeries and knit shops and boutique commercial on that first level. It has drawn others to live in that area above those. Maybe it means we think of what kind of uses should be in the table and what would be attractive to those first level commercial developments that are outside of hotels and relate to what has been talked about in the survey. She thinks there is some potential there. It took forty years in Ogden, but now it is viable. Dale Coulam stated the panel was not concerned about apartments but concerned about filling that first-floor space with commercial, so it doesn't drag down a project with vacancies. There is no easy answer. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we are such a small community we would have to see if businesses can survive in that type of space. Do we have enough customer base? Downtown St George is doing commercial on the bottom, but 4-5-6 story apartments above it. A thousand people in an area, rather than a couple hundred. Can we make businesses viable to bring customers here? Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated Feellove Coffee at Canyon Crossing is always busy. There is an exciting possibility. Mike Haycock stated Black Desert Resort is going to fill a lot of our commercial void. Would you pick Center Street or Black Desert Resort to shop? Maybe the suggested 50% of required commercial goes down to 10% commercial to meet the requirements for the State to have a mixed-use requirement. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that fits Ivins more than anything else suggested, but we still need to address the Mayor's issue of how to get multi-family units here that can look good. Mike Haycock stated put it in the resort commercial zone so we can monitor design guidelines, or we need to go back to the State and say we are changing our goal. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated yes because we are a different animal down here. We are even different than St George. Mike Haycock stated he thinks the whole city agrees. Maybe we pull the list out and look at it again. The State frowns on that but he is not against it. Even if we develop the zone, we aren't getting the phone calls to develop it. Two years ago we picked what we felt fit. At the next Council meeting, the Mayor is looking for ideas for housing for government workers. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated the initial list has seen the light of day long enough that the Wasatch Front now realizes our complexity. Reopening that list may be the way to go. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that the people at Feellove Coffee are mainly tourists. We are drawing tax dollars that aren't Ivins tax dollars, which he loves so it isn't all on Ivins residents' backs. He loves the idea of a walkable community, but he doesn't see it happening. We don't want the density that requires it. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated putting walls around our neighborhoods is not walkable either. Mike Haycock stated next meeting, we can look at the list. We have until July. It is a $250 a day fine if we don't hit those benchmarks. They frown on changing mid-stream. Chairman Dave Robinson stated we chose what we chose. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we need to live with what works in this community. Mike Haycock stated we can do the zone as they required, but we won't have applicants for the zone so there may not be a result. The unintended consequence of what they are requiring is the conversation we are now having. These zones have been set for years. We are being forced to develop a zone that may never be used. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated if we get any change in housing, it is with increased density and does not necessarily have to tie in with commercial. Mike Haycock stated then make it zero percent. Then the option is there. It would be Commercial Mixed-Use but doesn't have to bring in commercial. It would be an option. The State didn't tell him what the density is that they consider acceptable. Then you would be able to still look at the design guidelines for high-density. Commissioner Perry Brown stated we can work with that and bring the list for us to look over. Mike Haycock stated we still need to look at Resort Commercial because that is what the City Council asked for. He will talk with the State, then look at the Resort Commercial, leave the Resort Mixed-Use zone alone, and create a Commercial Mixed-Use. Chairman Dave Robinson thanked Mike Haycock for all his hard work and appreciates him.
Dale Coulam stated that the law has changed since 2005 since the plan was drafted. Our expansion area map shows Area 1 through 4. Area 1 and 4 may be difficult because of the tortoise issue. Area 3 is in Santa Clara and we asked them to remove our Ivins areas. We should do the same. Area 2 is the area in question, and it is mostly BLM. Santa Clara's annexation plan comes further to the southeast and takes in the proposed reservoir area and overlaps into the property we are acquiring from the BLM for the new public works yard, park, and cemetery and so we need to include that. Going to the west/northwest we would want to keep in the annexation plan as well. We could continue development along Hwy 91 on the south side, and it may be possible to go further south in area 2. Santa Clara is interested in the area to protect around the river and reservoir. Where the western corridor comes to the east, we are not as interested in as we are the west side of that corridor. Chairman Dave Robinson stated that area gives us more commercial potential if we need it. Dale Coulam stated it could, but it requires a very expensive bridge. It could access the public works yard, park, and cemetery. Become familiar with the map and think about giving area 3 to Santa Clara, and also Areas 1 and 4. Area 2 is our main focus for expansion. Area 1 would strain our public safety response times. It could likely require another fire station. The map says amended July 2019. It was a nice color version and easier to read, but it is the same area as the 2005 expansion area map and was never changed. We will work on the text of the annexation plan and statutes we need to follow. Santa Clara's annexation plan was fairly simple, so he has looked at that and he will get started on the language for our plan. Chairman Dave Robinson inquired if the Planning Commission has a role? Dale Coulam stated there will be Public Hearings at both the Planning Commission and at City Council. Commissioner Pam Gardiol stated the annex policy plan table stops at 2023. Will this document be completely updated? Dale Coulam stated we will update the entire annexation policy plan and use the current statutes. We are proposing a rewrite of the policy plan.
Dale Coulam stated that any action taken must be done openly and all deliberations are to be conducted openly. If a quorum is talking about an agenda item, it must be done openly in a meeting. A meeting is the convening of a body when a quorum is present, including work meetings. If two members show up, we can't start the meeting without a quorum, which is a minimum of three. Meetings must be properly noticed, which is usually 24 hours in advance unless there is a Public Hearing. Land use requires a 10-day notice, and we no longer publish, just post to the newspaper, the public notice website, our own website and five places throughout the city. Social events like church, parties etc you can be there socially, even three or more, just don't talk about business. Beware of pre-meeting or post meeting discussions about an agenda item when a quorum is present. You can be talking about the weather, or a trip, but it can appear to others that you are talking about agenda items. Closed meetings don't happen often in the Planning Commission, but they have to be for a statutory reason, like buying or selling real estate, professional conduct, etc. Regarding electronic messaging he recommends you not discuss as a quorum or deliberate an issue by email. It violates the spirit of the policy. Deliberations are to be conducted openly. Emails can be amongst you, but information should only be shared regarding dates and times of a meeting. If you have information to share, send it to Sharon Allen and she can send it out to the others. Don't deliberate by email and don't text each other about agenda items during a meeting. When there is a conflict of interest, you can verbally disclose if you have a conflict on the agenda. The written disclosure form would be for any personal or business interests you have that might involve the city, an example is if you have an approval or work with the city. He also suggests listing any properties and your own residence that is within the city. Someone could say you are taking a narrow look at an item in your neighborhood. We do those disclosures every year and note any changes that have occurred. You can't over-disclose. Under-disclosing is what gets you in trouble. If someone feels like there is an ethics violation, they investigate that out of Salt Lake. Commissioner Pam Gardiol inquired that at What's Up Down South and there was confusion if the three of us having lunch together, she and two councilmembers, made a quorum? Dale Coulam stated those are two different bodies. The Mayor generally does not count because he is not a voting member, unless there is a tie. But be careful of that. However, your example would be considered a social gathering.