The meeting was called to order at
05:30 p.m. All present included
Chair Pam Gardiol,
Commissioner Doug Clifford,
Commissioner Perry Brown,
and Commissioner Dave Robinson.
Chair Pam Gardiol stated that this is not a citywide request for this ordinance, It is located primarily in the Kayenta area and related in an effort that was petitioned for in the past as a night-sky designation. Rob Dalley stated that the Night Sky Committee brought this petition to the City over a year ago and fell through the cracks, so we wanted to get that process started. A small area, the Ence property, asked to not be in the night sky map area, so they moved that boundary and then across Hwy 91 they may approach Councilman Anderson about his property as well. This petition is to help get that designation and it is not citywide, just for the Night Sky Committee and the attached map is where they are petitioning. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that this map lacks information. It is more of a County plat map. He wants to see street names. Bryan Pack stated the section that is not in Ivins on the other side of Hwy 91 would have to be removed from this map. Kai Reed stated that she is the President of their Committee, Ivins Night Sky and this map is just all of Terry Marten's property. They aren't dead set on adding that property on the other side of Hwy 91. Anyone else whose property is in this map, we have approached and they have agreed to include their property. Chair Pam Gardiol inquired that because you have spoken to the property owners that is the reason this map jogs and stair-step down? Kai Reed stated yes, anyone that did not want to be part of this was left off the map. They will correct the map and boundary lines. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that what are the requirements? Light doesn't stop at a boundary line. Are there any potential issues having a neighbor across the boundary that doesn't want to be a part of this? Kai Reed stated the first step is making all of Terry Marten's property to match Kayenta's rules and regulations. We want a City ordinance to match because that is enforceable. All this property that may not develop with the Marten's, but develops in the future would then have to match the lighting ordinance. When we get to the point of applying for the International Dark Sky designation, they measure light within the community. Right now we are still the darkest night sky community in Ivins City. The difference between the International Sky designation and the City ordinance, is the ordinance is enforceable. If we get too much light pollution encroaching on the Kayenta community, we can lose the dark sky designation, but the ordinance is still enforceable. We want to do everything we can to protect Kayenta and Terry Marten's properties for future development. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that the designation won't stop light pollution from the people across the street who are not part of that designation. Kai Reed stated she wants to forget about the International Dark Sky designation as it relates to this overlay. That is not why they are here nor does it have anything to do with Ivins City. The Marten's want to protect their properties with a lighting ordinance that they are already currently using on their developed properties. They are looking down the road. If they are not the developer, how can they guarantee that the other properties match what is there currently? They have played with the idea of having an overarching covenant for all of those properties. Having a City ordinance that is enforceable is what they are trying to accomplish. We have to have an ordinance before we can apply for any kind of International Dark Sky designation. Ivins City has an ordinance in place already that does a lot to protect the night sky with light trespass, shielding and colors. That is already in your ordinance. The changes we are asking for are minor and tweaking it just a bit to meet Kayenta's rules and regs. This is not really that different than what is already there. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated how do you plan to handle the problem of enforcement? Kai Reed inquired how do you handle it now? You enforce it. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated you are trying to increase the standard within a certain area and it will create a conflict. How does that get resolved? Kai Reed stated if they meet the ordinance it is not a problem. They are already doing this in Kayenta. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated that just the first line as an example asks us to change from 1000 to 2000 across the street. Kai Reed inquired if they thought Kayenta should just give up? Commissioner Doug Clifford stated no, but handle it within Kayenta. It should not be a City ordinance. The boundary is where the problems will occur. Chair Pam Gardiol stated that there are three different areas within this City and there will always be boundaries and she has not seen that as an issue. It exists already. The ordinance is a good compromise among different perspectives on how dark skies should play out. One issue she did note was that in one area it says sports lighting should be off by 11 pm and other places it says 10 pm. Tim Povlick stated off by 10 pm is what the night sky people want but if a sports activity goes until 11 pm that's fine. As far as light going across boundaries there is a big buffer between the overlay and other zones. He is interested in the dark sky community destination to help everyone in their area. Chair Pam Gardiol stated 16.23.105 in the general standards it needs to be consistent. Tim Povlick stated they can set it at 10 pm but go on an extra hour with a sports activity. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated write that in there. Commissioner Perry Brown stated the Commission's point is when it comes back to us it needs to be consistent. Tim Povlick stated it will be cleaned up. Commissioner Perry Brown stated for all the parcels currently owned by Terry Marten you want consistency and a uniform ordinance for those parcels. Is that what you are after? Tim Povlick stated yes and as far as light pollution goes, St George gives us a lot of our light pollution. Ivins as a City does very well. Chair Pam Gardiol stated we just completed our General Plan and we are to see if our ordinances are in alignment with that Plan. In our outdoor lighting ordinance under 16.23.101 it states "the purpose includes the following vision statement." That statement listed is from the old General Plan. Bryan Pack stated that would need to be updated. It is an incorrect reference at this point. Chair Pam Gardiol stated there is also a section that mentions "to maintain and enhance property values." It is not the role of government to maintain and enhance property values. Bryan Pack stated he does not have a legal opinion he could render. If Council decided they wanted to try to preserve property values, it could become a policy. Chair Pam Gardiol stated that cities do not ensure property value according to Utah League of Cities and Towns. Bryan Pack stated he doesn't believe that is a statement of law from the Utah League of Cities and Towns. It may be a statement of good government, and policy that may ensure value for one person may not ensure it for another. In the end a City Council is a legislative body and so if the majority decides to try to maintain property values in this way, there is nothing that says they can't do that. Policy standpoint is a whole other question but there is no legal prohibition on a City Council saying they'd like to find ways to preserve property values. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that a home that is not maintained sometimes affects the home next door's ability to sell. We would involve the government then. Chair Pam Gardiol stated she would pose that the government's responsibility is the health, safety and welfare of the citizens, not preserving property value. Bryan Pack stated he hears all the time that something the Council is doing is affecting someone's property value. Zoning itself is not necessarily health, safety and welfare. We want a well-organized city. Welfare also covers the value of their house. People have and will continue to argue this for years. Legally he does not have a problem with that statement being in this ordinance. Chair Pam Gardiol stated another sentence in the ordinance states "to promote appropriate business." What are the criteria of appropriate? That is vague. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that he has lived here a long time and has never been a huge fan of the lighting ordinance. He enjoys the night sky just like everyone else, but we are living in a metropolitan area now. It wasn't that way thirty years ago. It makes it harder to get a night sky when we have other cities that aren't joining this. It is fine if Kayenta wants to do it. He doesn't have an issue with that. Chair Pam Gardiol stated she had another question on Page 12 #7 it says "Search lights, flood lights, laser source lights, strobe or flashing lights, illusion lights or any similar high-intensity light shall not be permitted except for emergencies by public safety personnel at their discretion. We have two entities within Ivins she can think of who use these items. Are they out of compliance? Commissioner Dave Robinson stated so many homes have permanent outdoor lighting on houses. They face down and are programmed and sometimes they are flashing. Those need to be taken into account. Property rights and what we can do with our own property needs to be looked at and upheld as well. Chair Pam Gardiol stated Page 15 states that all laser lighting is prohibited. Rob Dalley stated we can bring back our lighting ordinance and look at it. Bryan Pack stated there are two issues. One is to create an overlay zone for Kayenta and tighten up some of these restrictions. That seems simple. Then we need to look at the language in the general standards in both. That could take multiple meetings. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated we can move forward with the Kayenta overlay and go through and take our lighting ordinance to review those corrections. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated the challenge is not the verbiage, but how you measure for compliance. Light doesn't stop at a neighbor's boundary. It is inexact and varies. We are expecting a high dust coming in for example. That affects lighting. We didn't cause it but we get to deal with it. It is a nice concept but a challenge to make it enforceable. Having two different standards 30 feet apart from each other across the street could be problematic. Kai Reed stated there are appropriate light ordinances that do the best they can to protect the night sky and that is what we are trying to do. We are only looking at our area. In 2019 Dennis Mehr mentioned that we should apply for our own. We just want to protect Terry Marten's property and make it match what we have now in Kayenta. Chair Pam Gardiol stated she is asking for less intensity rather than greater intensity. It could be a problem if they were asking for brighter lights. Kai Reed stated yes and there is already a kind of buffer around the Kayenta property. Rob Dalley stated Kayenta already have this in place in their CCRs. Bryan Pack stated the Commission will look at the overall ordinance. Kayenta will redline Chapter 23 Title 16 and the things that need to be changed in our ordinance to match their requirements. Then we can put that into an overlay zone.
Chair Pam Gardiol stated that this came to us from the Council and there was previously a regulation but there is not anymore. Is there merit to reinstating those regulations? Rob Dalley stated in 2017 the Council decided to lessen those regulations by taking it away. Right now, there is no enforcement on home businesses. Councilmember Sharon Barton stated she has had a few issues with home businesses and would like the Commission to look at this draft ordinance to give us some teeth in the fight. She received several emails expressing concerns about the safety, traffic and parking for various home occupation businesses. Currently we have nothing in place and residents feel that the identity of the neighborhood is being taken away from them and is being abused by home occupation businesses. She researched other municipalities and we are basically the only City that does not have some type of home occupation business ordinance in place that protects the health, safety, and welfare of the neighbors. Right now, we do not require a business license and there is no way for the Fire Department to go inspect and do any type of fire risk assessment. The draft ordinance before you is the ordinance that used to be in place and repealed, along with some enhancements from the building department and some input from City Council. Chair Pam Gardiol stated in Section 5.10.040 #6 it says "anticipated daily average of customers." Is that their height, or weight? It should state "number of customers." The next section says in-home office may be approved if impacts are minimal." What are the criteria for minimal impacts? Bryan Pack stated he has a home office. Does he need a license? Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that internet-based businesses are all online. That should not be a factor. Commissioner Perry Brown stated he doesn't think anyone was trying to regulate home offices. It just needs clarification. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated contractors rarely have people over. Rob Dalley stated he thinks the intent was home-based businesses that impact neighborhoods. That is their direction. This is a concern about impacts of traffic and cars stacking up. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated we have parking regulations. Why do we care? People sell things out of their home and customers come and go. Maybe some regulations to not block roads but he takes issues from people from earning money on their own personal property if it doesn't encroach on others. Chair Pam Gardiol stated that those ordinances already exist. Are we duplicating in this draft? Bryan Pack stated there are limited parking ordinances but they don't really address this situation. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated noise could be an issue. Rob Dalley stated there is a fire safety concern. If we implement this the Fire Department has a chance once a year to make the owner clear out their garage. It is not attacking but to limit high-traffic volume areas from happening or creating a nuisance for the neighborhood. This is for commercial businesses being run in a residential area. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated define business. Troy's Autobody started as a backyard in his garage with lots of traffic and crashed cars and now it is a mainstay located right in the middle of residential. It doesn't bother him because he has made his livelihood. If we restrict the ability to make money out of their home just because someone else doesn't like it is against property rights. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated they are not trying to restrict people from making a living and having a business in their home, but protecting other residents from potential harm. Welder is probably not a good idea from a fire safety standpoint. Too many cars in the road than what is allowed in a parking ordinance is from a safety standpoint. Especially in a neighborhood with a lot of kids. Section 5.10.110 are ideas that have been garnered from other cities of prohibited and permitted uses. Troy's Autobody may have started that way but it is not now. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated you are eliminating Troy's Autobody from ever becoming Troy's Autobody. He was small to begin with and developed into what it is today. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated fair point. We can negotiate and talk about that. We are not trying to maintain keeping neighborhoods safe. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that was not how he felt it read. This seemed more restrictive. We have some discussion still to do. He is just putting his concerns out there. Chair Pam Gardiol stated whatever the usage is, needs to be a safe neighborhood usage. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated more than safety is nuisance, noise, vapors, gases, etc. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated regulating what is appropriate and what is not. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated that the ordinance reads "beyond residential norms." Not restrictive, just beyond the norm. Above typical traffic. Signage display is a concern as well. What if she wanted to start a pizza business in her garage and people come eat in her garage, driveway or patio? Commissioner Dave Robinson stated go for it. Councilmember Sharon Barton stated concerns she has heard is the safety issue of the number of cars and strangers coming and going through the neighborhood during school hours. These high-traffic businesses do not have repeat customers and they are parking in the street. We are not anti-business, but it has to be compatible with the neighborhood. Troy's Autobody started out small and gradually became bigger and worked with the community. Most businesses are not noticeable until there is noise at 2 am. We need some agreement in place to allow a business while other people can still have their kids out in the front yard. Chair Pam Gardiol stated she recommends moving this on to the next meeting. Rob Dalley stated they can move it on or table it. Chair Pam Gardiol stated let's review this document and clarify it further. Staff will send the Commission the redlines we have discussed so they can make their recommendations.
Chair Pam Gardiol stated that this report is due to the State in August. Rob Dalley stated this ordinance he and Councilmember Sharon Gillespie have gone through to show what we have done on the Moderate-Income Housing report with what is mandated from the State. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated one of the goals in the Moderate-Income Housing plan revolves around Accessory Dwelling Units. The State required the City to allow them. We chose this as an attainable goal. In order to make the State happy, we need to create those regulations. The Commission discussed this with Mike Haycock last June and she took all those minutes and everything that was existing and merged what she could. She looked also at other communities to get some ideas. This is a compilation of a dozen documents to identify what an Accessory Dwelling Unit is and garages and carports are separated out. We get into accessory units for agriculture, lot coverage, setbacks and building heights; all specific to Accessory Dwelling Units. Our goal is to have this final document approved at City Council prior to August 1st when our report to the State is due. Commissioner Perry Brown stated that other than settling on a few numbers in the red this is what we asked to go forward with. There was one table 16.11.128 that has percentage coverage allowed, but says amounts previously discussed. We just need to take those numbers and put them into the table. Rob Dalley stated that most municipalities decide on a percentage of coverage. If you have a guy on a two-acre lot and 5,000 square foot home. Typically, they would not build a 2,500 square foot Accessory Dwelling Unit in the backyard. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated unless it is for family. Rob Dalley stated totally up to you but he recommends thirty percent backyard coverage. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated we have one in Padre Canyon and both are huge homes. Rob Dalley stated that is kind of a violation of our ordinance right now to build two primary homes on one lot. Chair Pam Gardiol stated 16.12.103 regarding lot coverage says to "protect setbacks and fire hazards" the "total number of detached structures are limited as follows: 1. Limited to two 1,000 square foot structures or one 2,000 square foot structure on parcels smaller than 37,000 square feet or 2. Limited to three 2,000 square foot structures or two 3,000 square foot structures on parcels smaller than 37,000 square feet. How does that align with these percentages? Rob Dalley stated that is Mike Haycock's presentation and he understands what he was trying to do. His experience is that bigger lots should be able to build a bigger Accessory Dwelling Unit and most people typically would not build a giant Accessory Dwelling Unit. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated we need to make that consistent. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated maybe we overdid it and we don't need Item #6 regarding buildable area or they need to align. Bryan Pack stated that we comingle the phrase accessory buildings and accessory dwellings and they are not the same thing. Sharon Gillespie stated that agriculture is in there because theoretically they could have buildings for agriculture, an Accessory Dwelling Unit, and a detached garage on a property so it needed to be addressed somewhere. Chair Pam Gardiol stated 16.12.103 it says dwelling so that needs a different heading or move it elsewhere. Garages and carports should remain. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated there are combined accessory dwellings like a garage with an Accessory Dwelling Unit built into the attached garage, either above or behind it. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated it would follow the City height ordinance. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated we need to address Accessory Dwelling Units above a garage. Commissioner Doug Clifford stated these cannot be split. It is a rental that can never be owned separately from the primary property. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated yes, that is in here. Our max structure is at 1,000 square feet and recommended 600 square feet. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated what used to be a standard home has grown every decade. Now the average is 2,000 square feet. Chair Pam Gardiol stated regarding tiny homes, it states that "only one tiny home is permitted per residential lot." Page 5, #6A shows a limit of two structures. There is incongruity. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated she will add "as an accessory dwelling unit" to that sentence. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated clarify that other structures cannot be Accessory Dwelling Units. Also clarify it on Item #6 on lot coverage. Chair Pam Gardiol stated 16.12.103 Page #1 says "the purpose and intent of requirements for allowing Accessory Dwelling Units is to provide additional living accommodations in the community as well as provide supplemental income opportunities for property owners." Instead of "they are" state "Accessory Dwelling Units." Say "single" instead of "sing family" and she questions the use of "underutilized yards." Is the intent to fill up every yard with Accessory Dwelling Units? Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated she can reword that to "the most efficient use of existing housing" and delete "yards." Commissioner Dave Robinson stated no just delete the word "underutilized." Chair Pam Gardiol stated on Page 3 Under Item L change to lower case "cargo." Change "in a permanent structure" to "as a permanent structure." Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that tiny homes are not considered permanent. Rob Dalley stated the tongue and wheels have to be removed and it has to be attached to a site-built permanent foundation. Commissioner Doug Clifford inquired why don't we say modular? Rob Dalley stated there are two different codes. We can only look at the attachments, the sewer connection and the power. That is all under HUD as long as they have a sticker plate. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated we can add a modular section like a zipkit. She will rewrite those sections redlined and get this on the next Planning Commission agenda to hold a Public Hearing.
Rob Dalley stated that the City took away the deed restriction awhile back per the State requirement, and we should not be asking for that anymore in the code. We need to make that change. Sharon Allen stated this came to light because a gentleman said he can't build the casita he wants to build because our code says a casita agreement is required. That is no longer the case. This needs to be removed to match what City Council did to help with Moderate-Income Housing last time by removing those deed restrictions so people can rent out their casitas. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that "permit required" is redlined out. There is still a permit required, correct? It just isn't contingent on the casita agreement. He thinks it still needs to be there. Sharon Allen stated that our building and construction code says a permit is required. This will be on for a Public Hearing next meeting.
Chair Pam Gardiol stated this is a follow-up from Chuck Gillette's comments. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated that this setup on the example Chuck Gillette showed worked very well, but the only caveat is that there was a fire hydrant in the middle of one lot. Is there a space requirement for those hydrants? Rob Dalley stated yes. He believes it is 500 feet. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated this design makes a lot more sense to me. Commissioner Perry Brown the recommendations Chuck Gillette has made for changing the ordinance is good design. Chair Pam Gardiol stated in 15.05.204B it says a "large portion of the flag lot." What is a large portion? Bryan Pack stated the intent on that is stating THE large portion of a flag lot. We can define that better. Chair Pam Gardiol stated on 2D it says that "all flag lots shall have frontage upon a dedicated roadway or a publicly approved street." Going back to Vista Estates, the entire space between houses was not a street, it was a driveway. Would that ensure that can't happen again? Rob Dalley stated that is the intent. Bryan Pack stated a driveway gives you access to a public road. Commissioner Dave Robinson stated they called them driveways, so the address meets a dedicated street. On Vista Estates, the rear homes pass through someone else's driveway to get to the street. We need to clarify that language and how that is looked at. 2D doesn't rectify that situation. It is extremely tight quarters. We have fire, parking, drainage and potential vehicle damage issues at this subdivision. He does not know if this language directs toward a solution against that. Staff will make some changes and bring it back for further discussion.
Chair Pam Gardiol stated this is the current City plan. Councilmember Sharon Gillespie stated we are just letting the Commission know you will be reviewing this again in the near future. This shows the current goals and milestones.
MOTION: Commissioner Dave Robinson moved to approve the Ivins City Planning Commission Meeting Minutes for May 13, 2025.
SECOND: Commissioner Doug Clifford
VOTE: The motion carried unanimously.
| Chair Pam Gardiol |
AYE |
| Commissioner Doug Clifford |
AYE |
| Commissioner Perry Brown |
AYE |
| Commissioner Dave Robinson |
AYE |